Colorado Bigfoot?
Date: 20-Jul-00
Been awhile since I have asked on this forum, but has anyone seen bigfoot in Colorado while bowhunting?
Last time I asked on the Colorado Bowhunter forum, I got two reports, one a serious hunting guide with 12 years experience and one group of 4 bowhunters to come forward with clear daytime sightings. The guide had a sighting in the 1970’s from a distance of 25 yards in broad daylight while bugling for elk in the Lost Creek Wilderness. The second was from 4 bowhunters who claimed watching a bigfoot run for some 100 yards in broad daylight in an area close to their hometown, so I won’t give the exact area on that sighting. I also got 1 joke report that I wasted some time on. Any reports sent to me will remain confidential if requested, but I will have to talk to you personally on the phone or in person. The information you can give will be important and I will treat it seriously. I am working closely with wildlife professionals and two college professors on this and am very serious. No jokes.
For those that don’t know me, I am Keith Foster, a custom bowyer from western Kansas. I have been bowhunting since I was a wee lad, and have been lucky enough to harvest a number of P&Y qualifying critters through the years and even officially entered a couple in the books when younger. I trophy hunted to extend my season, and so no longer enter the record book animals taken. I have spent more than 300 field days and nights in Colorado wilderness (backpacking,bowhunting, wilderness trout fishing). I also spent many summers in Colorado, as we had a family ranch there. I have hunted for bear, elk, and deer in Colorado and Wyoming. Have 5 or 6 Pope and Young qualifying mule deer bucks. No P&Y bull elk yet, but have bugled lesser bulls to within feet of me many times. I love calling game. Many of the mule deer bucks were rattled and/or grunted into bow range (it can be done). I have harvested maybe 20 some mule deer bucks through the years. I was hunting on the Adams Fork west of Platoro Reservoir in the San Juans in 1979 when Ed Wiseman was attacked by a grizzly sow that he subsequently killed after it chewed him up a bit. I have seen grizzly tracks there one time since then and know of a picture of a grizzly sow and two cubs taken in that area in 1998, in spite of them supposedly being extinct there for 20 years, and thought extinct for the 25 years prior to Wiseman being attacked. Funny what can go on in the wilderness without officials knowing about it.
We have found bigfoot tracks down there in that wilderness too, twice. 17 inches long by 8 inches wide. I’ve seen hundreds of bear tracks in CO/WY/MT, and these tracks we are finding are not bear tracks. They dwarf even coastal grizzly tracks. For you bowhunters in the Eagle River area, you are probably aware of the 19 inch long by 10 inch wide bigfoot tracks found on that river this spring by two different fly fishermen (see at www.bfro.net as there is a link on that homepage to the track report investigation brief). They are not bear tracks, that’s for sure.
Colorado has from 3 to 6 thousand cougars running around and we rarely see them without using dogs. I’m guessing that there may be less than 200 bigfoot in all of Colorado, so what are the odds of seeing one, considering they are as stealthy as a cougar, but with the brains of a chimpanzee. If you have seen 30 different wild cougars without using dogs, you should have seen a bigfoot by now too. In 300 field days, I’m still waiting to see a wild cougar or a bigfoot. Nobody shoots at bigfoot, because they look so dang man-like that a person would decide against it 999 times out of 1000. I know of at least 10 Colorado hunters who have watched bigfoot through a rifle scope. I’m still waiting for that 1 in 1000 hunter who will do the deed and bring one out. We don’t know if they are man or animal yet, but I am leaning toward them being no smarter than a chimp. If you shoot one, just say you thought it was a bear, and then you can’t be charged with murder of other lesser violations. Us bowhunters might not get away with that excuse though, considering our short range. The bigfoot are about the same size and weight as a polar bear or coastal grizzly, and so they a big, but still killable with an arrow. Better have a high tree stand though. I know of several bowhunters who have had a bigfoot walk right by their treestand. One bowhunter claimed to have seen three bigfoot (male, female and one small offspring in succession) following some deer that had just gone under his stand and he was completely serious about his report. Bowhunters represent a small portion of the human population at large, but we are much more likely to be the ones to see unusual animals. A large percentage of reports of bigfoot sightings are by bowhunters, even though there are not very many of us comparitively. We are either good at hunting, quiet in the wood and well camoflaged resulting in real sightings of a real animal or we are crazier than the rest of the people and hallucinating or lieing a bunch. As a bowhunter, I choose the first option as why bowhunters are seeing bigfoot, when city slickers aren’t.
After studying about 3000 sighting reports I think bigfoot are predators who like elk over anything else, but will kill and eat deer, beavers, marmot, and any other animal it can catch. It also eats berries and some vegetation at times. Bigfoot is real good at patterning the movement of prey animals, and so is also real good at knowing where people usually travel and avoids those areas. Cougars are also good at this. If you are bugling for elk or using a fawn distress predator call and accidently call in a bigfoot, you will likely never know it, unless it is aggitated at you and screams loudly at you for disturbing it (that happens BTW). Bigfoot are very keen and know how to circle downwind out of sight and size things up. They themselves stink to high heaven and are very aware of breeze direction for their own hunting purposes. If you smell a gagging smell in the forest that you have never smelled before, investigate it by walking into the breeze. The smell is usually like a sickly sweet musky sweat and urine smell mixed with the smell of something dead. Run towards the smell if you want some real excitement or if you don’t believe that bigfoot is a real animal. (: Bigfoot and elk are about the only two animals we bowhunters can hunt with our own inefficient noses. You experienced elk hunters know what I am talking about.
If you want to go find a bigfoot yourself to find out for yourself, I have put a map of sighting locations on the BFRO website database for Colorado. The summer sightings are at 9,000 feet and above, with winter sightings below usually. Find the dense concentrations of elk, and bigfoot will be close by. The S.San Juan Wilderness, Holy Cross Wilderness, Silverton area, and Lost Creek Wilderness are hotspots. Bigfoot are large and well furred and so are prone to heat stress, so check cool dense north slopes, shelves near timberline on north slopes, hidden water puddles. They are also moving around more at night than in day because of problems with heat. Backpack in and camp in unusual locations well away from human foot trails or roads to elicit curiosity on the part of bigfoot in the area. They will be trying to keep track of you, to avoid accidental contact. They are afraid of people for the most part, and usually quiet, but sometimes it will get interesting if you camp on what they consider home base. Do this enough times like I have, and you will soon know that bigfoot is more than myth. Keep in mind that one bigfoot may call a 20 mile by 20 mile area (400 square miles) home, and so it may take some time to find that moving needle in a haystack. The sighting map I have prepared will get you close though.
If you have already seen a bigfoot in Colorado or anywhere else, I want to know about it. It never hurts to ask, as it has given me reports in the past from bowhunters. I was as skeptical as most of you prior to personal experience, so I understand skepticism. Instead of laughing at this request, go there and find out for yourself. Time spent in the wilderness is never wasted time. You can email me at kfoster@gcnet.com Serious reports only please, to aid my research.
Date: 21-Jul-00
Bigfoot is rejected as real, precisely because we have no body to look at. I have decided not to shoot one myself if given the opportunity, and am in fact planning to spend over $5,000 of my own money to hire a professional videographer for a 14 day expedition where we will use calls in hopes of luring one in summer 2001. I am concerned that housing developements in winter habitat is having a negative effect on a couple of small groups of them in Colorado, and also am worried that developments in breeding corridors are being detrimental. The introduction of wolves will also hurt prey populations and possibly have disasterous effects (bigfoot sightings are rare to non-existent in high wolf density areas). There is also the possibility that this primate may visit human garbage dumps and contract human disease and transmit it through some local populations of them. If I don’t get the video needed, or if the video is rejected as real, we will be no further along in the protection of habitat for these predators. If one dies and science learns they are there, then hundreds will be saved as wildlife managers can put them in the equations used for decision.
Actually I was being facitious when I said “say it was a bear” as an excuse to show you that the responses are always against shooting one, for moral reasons. Now you can’t ask me “why hasn’t one been shot?”, as you have now answered your own question. Few have any qualms about shooting a cat, but none of us want to shoot at an animal that looks and walks like a man, even if it is hairy. Heck, I have an uncle that is pretty dang hairy all over. (:
How is it that CDOW/BLM/Forest Service has missed seeing grizzlies or finding grizzly bear bodies with their helicopters for 50 years in Colorado? We have proof that they have been in the San Juans at a breeding level for the last 50 years now, without ever being seen by our officials. They are seen by hunters or hikers every once in awhile, but not quite as often as bigfoot are seen there. Wonder why? Grizzlies are grass eaters for the most part for those of you that don’t know, and spend a great amount of time munching grass in open slopes where they also dig for rodents and roots or grazing on berries. They can flat tear up a hillside and yet our biologists can’t find them from foot or in the air, in spite of trying hard. Nobody in CDOW is trying to find a bigfoot, by air or afoot. A citizen group of “Grizzly Researchers” spent a bunch of time in the San Juans looking for grizzly bear sign all through the 80’s and early 90’s and came up empty, and now we get a picture of a sow and two cubs there in 1998. The only unusual tracks found by the citizen group was a very large set of “unidentifiable” tracks near a silted pond that looked more like large barefoot human tracks than bear tracks. They had no idea what those tracks were. So grizzlies spend a bunch of time in the open. Bigfoot is a predator of the dense forest, and avoids the open areas in daylight because of either shyness or because they are so large that they are prone to heat stress in full sun. Sightings are rarely in the open, if we believe the reports from the 20,000 witnesses.
There are some 20,000 black bears or more in Colorado, and have you ever found a dead black bear that died a natural death? When you find 1,000 dead black bears, then you might personally find a bigfoot body if you know what you are looking for. Can you tell the difference between a bigfoot bone and an elk bone? Little Johnny might pick up a bigfoot bone and say “Look dad, at this big bone”, dad would say “Put that stinking bone down and wash your hands, you’re not dragging that thing back to camp”. Even skulls break down into unidentifiable pieces in short order. Even a whole skull, with its saggital crest along the top, and pointy back might be misidentified as a bear skull with Johnny’s dad saying “wow, I didn’t know bear skulls were so big, they sure look wierd when the flesh is gone off it, come on Johnny, we’ll be late for supper”. One hiker/hunter in perhaps 20,000 or so might see that something is different/interesting about the femur they are looking at. So when that anatomy expert finds a bigfoot bone, maybe he will bring it out for further study. Should be a long wait for the expert and the bone to find each other.
When you see a bigfoot for yourself, you will be ridiculed and/or ignorred for the most part if you go public. If you find a track and photograph or cast it, you will be called a track faker by many. If you see a bigfoot track and report it, you will be called stupid for not knowing that what you actually saw was the fore and rear foot tracks of a bear on top of each other. If you go to the Holy Cross Wilderness and see a bigfoot and report it to officials, they will ignor your report to them, just like they have ignorred the reports of the 40 some witnesses that actually reported the same thing there in the last 40 years.
I know of one professional Colorado biologist that has heard and seen a bigfoot in Colorado, and he will believe your report. It will get to him through me if you come forward.
I know of one professional biologist in British Columbia that has found tracks himself. I know of two professional wildlife biologists in Oregon that have seen a bigfoot first hand, and another who has found tracks.
Utah actually has a Utah State biologist assigned and paid to track bigfoot and reports of it when they come in for some reason. Wonder why? Colorado has none assigned to that end, at least not officially and publicly.
Wildlife managers from many states gathered in Idaho this last spring to listen to another biologist give a presentation titled “Sasquatch Habitat”. Why is such a ludicrous presentation to professional biologists and state officials allowed?
Read; “Big Footprints”, by WSU anthropologist Dr. Grover Krantz
Read; “Sasquatch;North Americas Great Ape” by former United Nations wildlife biologist Dr. John Bindernagel
As a skeptic myself, I understand the mentality of “I’ll have to see it to believe it”. I was there myself. I’ve never seen a bigfoot myself, but that does not mean it doesn’t exist and that all the witnesses have lied to us. Odds are, you will never see a living bigfoot, and may never see a dead one either.
Don’t shoot one guys, let me try for the video first, and maybe if some of you will keep a video camera at the ready at all times you can get the needed video. Hope you do, because odds are against me getting it, even if I try long and hard. As a long time big game bowhunter, I know how to figure odds, and it doesn’t look good. I have a better chance of scoring on a new world record bull elk at 5 yards with my longbow, than I have at getting video of one of less than 200 bigfoot in Colorado. Because bigfoot are so big, there will never be very many of them, as the land cannot support very many. We had quite a few bigfoot sightings in the 70’s in the Lost Creek Wilderness, and then it just shut off there and no sightings there since. There were a number of sightings near Crestone and along the west side of that range in the 1900’s to the 1920’s, and then it just shut off there, none since. Sightings still continue from the San Antonio mountain area of New Mexico toward the northwest on a line over to Silverton, but that one may shut off too in the future. There are also still summer sightings in a line from Leadville to Eagle in summer, and over near the FlatTops wilderness in winter, but for how long. I just hope to answer this wildlife mystery while there is still time to do something about it. I love wildlife, even the ones I bowhunt to eat. If bigfoot is there, they are a natural animal and die natural deaths. It would be a lot less expensive for me to not hire a videographer and just use a bullet to bring in the evidence, wouldn’t it. I would perhaps save a species with that bullet, but have to endure the oral blasts from you people that didn’t believe it was even real in the first place. If I get the video, and it is rejected as real after having spent so much money to get the film, I’m going load a 375 H&H Mag to go out and drop one colder than stone, because I care what happens to the species as a whole. I’m also going to rub a whole lot of faces in the stinking fur of this animal that does not exist.
It is an animal, just like a chimp, gorilla, cougar or bear is an animal, and not a man. I can’t believe I am finding animal humanizers on a bowhunting forum. If it were a man, it would be hunting with a bow. (:
All animals live out a blissful and eternal existance and never die in nature, if it were not for man. Am I hearing you right Deernelk? I’ve watched coyotes eat the rear legs off a living and bleating newborn fawn, and you are telling me that a properly placed bullet into a bigfoot is cruel? I say that what is cruel is to let a whole species go ignorred to the point of going extinct. If you don’t believe bigfoot is real, what are you worried about anyway. Nobody can shoot something that is not real. If you do think bigfoot is real and are opposed to having one studied by science to determine the needs of the species as a whole, you are in the dark as far as what is required in wildlife sciences. If you see one for yourself Deernelk, don’t call me, call CDOW instead, they’ll treat you better, and it will give them a few laughs over coffee at your expense. Are you really a hunter? Have you ever killed an animal? Shame on you for killing bambi, just so you could eat it. If you are going to kill something, why not have that killing do some monumental good for a whole species and not just for your own personal and selfish consumption. You are just a selfish killer of another lifeform.
You must have watched the humanized version of bigfoot in “Harry and the Hendersons” to base your conclusions of what a bigfoot is. I say don’t accept the “Bambi” version of what deer are either. Some people here must be way removed from what nature/wilderness really is, and get their ideas and ideals from Hollywood. The bigfoot I know break the necks of elk with a twist, and if they are full will only take the liver. If they are full when hunting and have an opportunity, they will not kill the elk, but rather break both back legs and leave it there suffering, so they can come back later to kill it later and eat what they want at that time. Humans are far more humane in the way they hunt and kill compared to any other predator.
HornHunter, if I’m selling something, it’s sure costing me a bunch of money. What I’m doing is getting expensive, and out of my own pocket. I’m also giving up vacation time I usually reserved for bowhunting, to pursue knowledge about bigfoot. That really hurts, and I haven’t taken a P&Y animal for 3 years. You show your ignorance of the subject by your statement “there are a lot of people out in the wilderness doing a lot of research projects and none of these credible people have ever seen anything even close” is not even close to true. Would you like some names and phone numbers so you can ask them yourself. You are right about them “not ever having seen anything even close”, as in actuality it was not something close to a bigfoot they saw, it was a bigfoot they describe seeing. What makes a person with a degree in biology a better animal witness than a bowhunter who has spent more time in the wilds than the biologist anyway? A bigfoot is a bigfoot, no matter who sees it. Let’s go to court and you can testify that bigfoot is not real based on the fact that you have never seen one, and I will bring in a couple thousand people, including a fair number of people with degrees in biology, that say they have seen one. We will check all backgrounds of all witnesses to determine sanity and let the judge decide if your testimony of “not seeing a bigfoot” will win the case. Maybe I will sue the state of Colorado to collect the expenses of my research and bring in my number of star witnesses with biology degrees who claim to have seen bigfoot. I’ll also bring in Dr.s Krantz, Meldrum, Bindernagal, Sprague, Fahrenbach, Napier and a host of others with doctorates to testify in the very very positive on bigfoot. I’ll give the state your name and you can be their star witness of “non-seer”. The state could also bring in any number of anthropologists who have “not studied” bigfoot, and as their “unlearned” opinions. The problem with the states case is that those anthropolgists/primatologists/biologists who have studied bigfoot track consistancies, dermal ridge detail in tracks that the FBI says is impossible to hoax, unidentifiable American primate hairs, unidentifiable large feces, partial primate DNA sequence from hairs, sighting report consistencies, and other items of interest, have all come away convinced that bigfoot is not only real, but is still out there running around our American Forests.
Ya’ll should read about the evidence we do have on hand and the people that have seen bigfoot before making broad statements of what has or has not been forwarded as evidence and by whom. You’ll be surprised. You also might want to go look through a microscope at the hairs we have collected that sit in files at the Oregon Primate Research Center, a medical research center that uses primates in experimentation. Maybe you can identify the primate hairs that no one else can seem to find a match for. They are primate, so that rules out a great number of sources for the hairs. They are fairly long, so that rules out a bunch of primates as the source. They are not gorilla, chimp, orangutan, human, or any other known primate hair. They match some hairs found in central China that are attributed to an animal there that leaves exactly the same type of tracks as found here, that also don’t match any other primate hair. What are they? I’m trying to find out, but those who only have ridicule instead of lending assistance are making it like swimming upstream.
The largest and longest extant ape to ever live on earth, gigantopithecus, lived in China for some 3 to 5 million years and we only have 4 fossil jaws of it to say it even ever lived, and no other even little parts of bones of it. That is only 1 jaw fossil for every 1 million years of existance for that animal. Must have always been very rare. If that animal or one like it migrated to North America with the rest of the large mammals across the Bering Land Bridge some measly 15,000 years ago, then we might expect to find a fossil jaw of it in about 1 million years from now if we learn anything from the past.
Forget it, I won’t ask for help here anymore. I have enough sighting reports from Colorado anyway and don’t really need any more. I was just trying to track current sightings to give some idea of how the bigfoot population is proceeding or not proceeding. I probably won’t get too much help from guys sitting at computers. I need to go ask the bowhunters who are in the field scouting for elk season right now. I’ll be there with them in a few days and am wasting my time here on this forum probably. Nobody is going to see a living breathing bigfoot on a computer screen. They live in the deep woods, well away from computers.
I’m outa here!
Keith Foster
Date: 22-Jul-00
Many times when bigfoot is seen it is eating a deer or elk or actively chasing one of them or stalking a herd of them. That’s how I know what it eats. I know how it lives because I have been following them around and seeing where it does it’s thing. I also have studied habitat and habitat use, metabolic needs, and primate behavior. There is no other available niche for the animal called bigfoot except for the one I have concluded must be. All predators share certain behavioral traits, which fit well with their lifestyle. The reason I have so many P&Y qualifying big game animals is because I do my homework on my quarry.
Yuk, how can you even skin a marmot, marmotEater
The reason my post had to be so long is because you guys need to know where I am coming from and I can’t just say “bigfoot is out there” without backing it up somewhat. I came to the forum with a simple question and got jumped all over with ridicule.
Tell me what you have meatblender, I’ll keep it confidential, and thank you. Dates, times and locations will help, as well as descriptions of what was seen. I hadn’t heard of the local papers down there carrying an article. That is my main field research area, but I don’t live there so I miss a bunch. I still have some 20 people from 7 different sightings in that particular area that I have not been able to get the personal interviews completed on yet. You can just email the sighting to me at kfoster@gcnet.com instead of putting it out here in public.
Keith
Date: 22-Jul-00
Sorry buckhunter, I didn’t mean to stir up a bunch of crap.
The reason I am doing all this is that for the last 10 years I have been mapping old and new sightings and it shows a reducing distribution. In the time period 1900-1920 we had sightings around Crestone and down to Mt. Blanca and then they just shut off there. We had a number of sightings in the Lost Creek Wilderness up to about 1978 and then no more from that area. Sightings up around Steamboat Springs also quit after 1980. Sightings were pretty regular in the Holy Cross Wilderness (summer sightings) and in the lower elevation nearby Flat Tops (winter sightings) up to about 1980. Now that area only has very sporadic and rare sightings or track finds. Sightings in south central Colorado used to extend from Trinidad, down to Taos and up through the San Juans over to Silverton in the 70’s and 80’s and now are reduced to two small areas, one in the S.San Juan Wilderness and one spot over near Silverton. This map give indications we are losing them, which I hoped to avoid.
If bigfoot is real, I have a moral obligation now to do all I can to help it avoid extinction. Do I have anything better to do? Yes, I wish I could be in the dark on this subject, but I can’t now.
The maps show that there are not sightings everywhere in Colorado, but in specific locations, indicating specific distribution of a real animal. Since so many people visit Rocky Mountain National Park, one would expect bigfoot sightings to be highest there, if bigfoot is only a forest myth or folklore, as there are more people there to see a bear or stump and misidentify it. We have never had a report from there. Can you tell me logically why there are no reports from that Park? Why are the reports usually from less populated areas?
Where we had our encounters was in an area where I backpacked into a timberline lake less than 2 miles away, caught some nice size trout, and spent the 4th of July weekend without seeing another person the whole weekend. It’s nice to still have a few places like this in Colorado to get away to, with only elk, bear, bighorns, deer, and bigfoot as neighbors. I didn’t ask to see bigfoot and it’s tracks, because I didn’t even think bigfoot was real, let alone in Colorado, it just happened. It was very unexpected. Same with the other couple who saw one within 1/2 mile of where my dad had his sighting. They watched it through binoculars for approximately 5 minutes while scouting for elk in that drainage. The man’s last statement was “I’ve been all over this area for 25 years and never seen anything like it”. I was there for 15 years before I had any indication of them there. Why do sightings of them there go clear back to 1870, and why did the Jemez name a pueblo after them in 1540? Why did a hunting guide in complete sincerety say one stepped out of the forest within 25 yards of him at his hidden location on the edge of a forest meadow after he had bugled for elk there? Why did a Colorado father and teenage son hunting partners say they were stalking up on what they thought was a bear feeding on a deer only to have it stand up when they were within 30 yards of it, look at them with a gorilla like face and walk like a giant and strong man off into the forest? Why would both of them tell me that story in all sincerety? Why did a law enforcement officer video tape two sets of giant man-like tracks, the biggest of which was 20 inches long and 10 inches wide, on the CO/NM border on the back side of a ranch pasture next to the forest in the winter of 1993/94? Why did those tracks just trail on for miles through snow and mud? Why did those tracks have human-like toenail indentations where they pressed into the mud deeply? Why would someone fake them where they would likely never be found and how did they do it with such a long stride for such a long distance uphill and downhill? Why did 20 people report sightings in that particular area that winter? Why did a Colorado rancher report watching two of them stalking an elk herd on a slope near his home through binoculars for quite a long period of time? Why did two fly fisherman find 19 inch tracks on the Eagle River this spring in such a strange location for a faker to put them? Why did local law enforcement in that area rule out hoax in this case? Why did those tracks show indications of pressure ridges and pushoff ridges and appear completely natural to experienced trackers? Why do some of this countries top anthropolgists and primatologists think the Eagle River tracks are real? Why do you think they are not?
Sorry if you feel I have wasted your time, but I feel I have a moral obligation as a wildlife lover to see this unusual predator always has a summer and winter home and food to eat.
There are no unicorn, dragon, elf, troll, or tiger sightings in Colorado for some reason, but there are sure plenty of bigfoot sightings, many from extremely close range by experienced outdoorsmen. Three of the sightings I have on hand are from experienced guides who make a living in the wilds. Are they all lieing to me? I can give you their names and you can call them a lier to their faces. Or maybe you want to call them inexperienced with wildlife. Maybe you want to call me inexperienced with wildlife.
I got the 20,000 black bear figure from Colorado Mammologist David Armstrong, as that figure used to be listed on the DNR website. CDOW guesstimate is now 8,000 to 12,000 and I suppose a guess by Beck. I’ll use the 12,000 figure from now on. Either figure is a guess, as they will all tell you. We have to make educated guesses on cougar numbers too. You just don’t see these species from helicopters in head counts. That, and we don’t see another big mammal predator in helicopter head counts either. As a cougar researcher myself, I can tell you that that animal is quite keen, but there is another predator out there that is even keener.
Best to all of you, and thanks to those of you who took the time to send me your sightings, I’ll be giving you a phone call to talk about it. I, for one, believe you.
Still can’t figure out why some people here think I’m selling something. Paranoia?
Advice for this fall; Join NRA even if you don’t own a gun, vote for Bush, not Gore, if you like to hunt, try rattling mule deer late season, rattle big antlers hard and loud and for a long time, hunt north slope shelves for bull elk near timberline, and watch for big big tracks.
Keith Foster
Date: 22-Jul-00
Hey Mike Lee, you are sure rude to me in your posts. Why? What did I do to you? “Can’t believe you don’t have a P&Y marmot to your credit!”, is an uncalled for statement. Are you saying I don’t have any P&Y animals to my bowhunting credit? The only reason I mention my bowhunting experience is to let you know that I have been around the woods a few times. Want to compare trophy rooms? I’ll post photos of mine here if you will yours.
You have insulted my bowhunting ability.
Lee, when you said “Jeez Foster, after reading through both your posts I’m amazed at how much you know abut BF without ever seeing one!” ,you don’t realize that the countries leading field researcher of mountain lions never saw one in the wild that was not treed by dogs.
You have insulted my intelligence and wildlife knowledge.
Is that all you can throw, is insults?
Lee, evidently whenever a bigfoot poops, it leaves it at a bigfoot latrine or buries it like a good predator should if I take the word of Dr. Henner Fahrenbach and wildlife biologist Jim Hewkin who have collected it on several occasions. A “latrine” is what what the weasel family does and bury it is what the cat family does, in case you don’t know. When I am in the woods, I bury it. When I am at home, I use the latrine. I have seen where some of you guys didn’t take the time to bury it, but you should next time.
Lee, I’ve found two very large piles of excrement (around 2 quarts worth) that was not elk, was not deer, was not horse, was not cow, was too much for coyote, cougar, or any other known animal, but could have been soft bear crap if it ate only meat/hair. Soft gooy/pasty, black to gray coloration, with some kind of hairs in it (elk or deer hairs I think), amorphous mass (quasi diarria), dried deep in the surface to indicate it was kind of old. Had no odor that I could determine beyond an earthy scent. Looked like a large cow crap only with hairs in it instead of undigested vegetable matter. Could see no seeds, grass, berrie remains, in it at all. Could have been bear crap though, so there is a problem in bigfoot poop identification. If it looks like bear crap, you will always believe it is bear crap because you are great and mighty in wildlife knowledge.
Lee, do you really want to know about bigfoot crap, or are you just being rude. Why don’t you call Dr. Henner Fahrenbach at the Oregon Primate Research Center. He knows more about bigfoot crap than I do. His number is 503-690-5239. Ask him why we don’t find any bigfoot crap and you will find that we do. He may also have the phone number of biologist Jim Hewkin and you can ask him. Hewkin has collected a bunch of bigfoot crap through the years from latrines he has found. I’ve never found a bigfoot latrine yet. If you want to look for the latrines, they are supposed to occur up next to rock cliff faces most of the time. The crap is usually around 3 to 4.5 inches in diameter when in firm cylindrical form, up to three quarts worth, so you will probably know it when you see it. Big poop! I’ve been looking for a territorial latrine so that I can put out a camera trap there. If you find one, let me know.
Lee, marmots eaten by bigfoot are usually the babies, and they evidently don’t bother skinning it. Just pop it in their mouth after digging it up. (Thomas 1969, Hewkin 1973) Why waste all that calcium in the bones and protien in the hide. I’ll have to try marmot, sans skin, bones and guts though.
I give information, ya’ll just give insults.
Date: 23-Jul-00
HornHunter, If you will take a look through the pages of the Pope and Young you will see my name a couple of times. I specifically said in my first post that I have P&Y “qualifying” animals, as not all are listed. You want me to show you the “official measurements” on all the forms done by “offical” P&Y measurers. Why attack me on that subject? If I get a top ten animal some day, I may have that entered for the sake of helping other bowhunters know where the good genetics are, but for now, why enter and just push yours down the scale. It also costs money to enter an animal. Money I would rather put to other things, like donating custom bows to raffles for charity for disabled young bowhunters or bowhunting organizations. Those of you who know me from the “stickbow” threads, only know me as the guy who builds bows for charities, and may not have realized that I was the same idiot who researches the mythological bigfoot.
Hornhunter, I think you owe me an apology.
You all can read any thread you want, you don’t have to read here if you don’t want. I have now recieved two more leads on Colorado sightings of bigfoot from this one post. And two from the previous post. The guys are afraid to post here, as many of you are only full of ridicule for them. Too bad, as the sightings are interesting to anyone who loves wildlife, or even those who just enjoy it if they only think it is just “lore”.
Buckhunter, why don’t you register?
Bowhunters are important to my research, and since my research field is Colorado, that is where I must look for my information. I don’t know why this interesting subject should offend anyone, and if you are not interested in it, why are you visiting this thread, as there are plenty of other threads and room for more. I’m not hurting anybody and have kept my cool in spite of unfounded bias.
Waterdogutah, Why do you attack me too, and from Pennsylvania no less? I am a Christian and have never used drugs as I feel that drugs and drunkeness are a replacement for the peace that can only come from God. I’ll have a beer or two every now and then, but thats about it. I rarely hunt for P&Y animals anymore, as most of my bowhunting time is spent taking youngsters out and rattling in bucks for them instead of me. Now “there” is real excitement in bowhunting. Why be a taker, when you can be a giver. The smiles are worth more than all the P&Y trophies in the world when a youngster connects on a little buck.
There really are real bigfoot tracks in Colorado, I know that for sure. You all can decide for yourselves what those tracks mean, but don’t tell me they are bear tracks, because they are not. If they are fake tracks, they sure are being put in some strange places. My father and mother were also Christians and lied to no one, and certainly never lied to me about what they saw with their own eyes. As a very experienced hunter, if my father said he saw bigfoot at 3:00 in the afternoon of Memorial day 1990, he saw it, end of story.
I don’t know what mammologist the question above is refering to, the one who had the 20,000 black bear figure at one time, the ones I work with in bigfoot research, or the ones that have seen bigfoot themselves. ????
My best to you all, and sorry to those I offended for any reason, which is still a mystery to me as to why they are so full of hate for me. Thanks again to the two of you bowhunters who gave me sightings for Colorado, you have helped much.
Date: 23-Jul-00
Here is an interesting recent sighting report and subsequent track find in the Northwest for those interested. http://www.thesunlink.com/news/2000/july/0710trackingsasq.html
Actually, polls in the Pacific Northwest show that 40% believe that there are bigfoot out there, about 20% think there could be, 10% have no opionion one way or the other and 30% think is impossible. Like the UFO enigma, those with higher educations are the ones are more likely to believe that something real is possibly going on in both phenomenas. I’m in the 20% catagory on UFO’s, the “could be” catagory. And have to now say I am in the 40% catagory on bigfoot. I find few people in the Pacific Northwest that don’t personally know someone who claims to have seen a bigfoot. Bigfoot is less a coffeeshop or media subject in Colorado, but it is surprising the number of people who have seen them there.
Thanks waterdogutah. If you are from Utah, your state actually has a wildlife biologist (Rudy Drobnick) assigned to study bigfoot in the Uintahs and Wasatch ranges. I just investigated a case of a bowhunter approaching to within 25 yards of a giant hairy person sitting in the middle of a meadow, northeast of Ogden Utah. The bowhunter thought it was a burnt stump until it started swaying back and forth and messing with the something in front of it. The bowhunter was investigating a strong smell of something dead, wanting to see if it was a dead elk or deer there. Boy, that was one suprised bowhunter when the source of the stink was found.
Actually bo-n-aro (I like your moniker by the way), I think that the subject of bigfoot is very relevant to the western hunting experience. If it is there, it adds to the enjoyment. If it is not there and only lore, it adds to the mistik of the lonely wilderness places. Camping alone through the night on a far off ridge, deep in the wilderness a days walk in, with only a bow for protection, is more interesting with Teddy Roosevelts hobgoblins around at night. If interested in the experience, I can tell you the area to camp to change your mind about bigfoot. Ask Al Herrin, who writes for Traditional Bowhunter Magazine, what it is like to be put up a tree by an unseen creature in Colorado that can scream so loud it will rattle your innards. He wrote about it some 3 or 4 issues back. Bowhunting the wilderness is fun, and it is more fun with the bigfoot poking curiously around your tent, smacking rocks together, grunting and cooing back and forth. It’s not so fun when they scream at you. I’ve been there. It is also not so fun when they start hurling boulders at you in aggrevation that you are trespassing in their stomping grounds. Shine a flashlight at the sounds and look into the face of something that is not supposed to exist. Go there, do that. Then come back and comment on the experiences.
I understand the skepticism, as I was there myself. To my mind, prior to experience and study, bigfoot could not exist in Colorado or anywhere. Now I think different, that’s all. Enjoy the outdoors, all of it. I’m getting older, and am going to have to figure out a way to get my backpack down to 50 pounds instead of 70 pounds, so I am hoping some of you younger bowhunters will run into a bigfoot yourself and start doing your own field research. Someday we’ll have more answers to the mystery of Roosevelts forest hobgoblins that leave giant human-like tracks out there.
Hope you guys that have better things to do didn’t waste time reading this post too. Go do something else if not interested, please. There is room for thousands of different threads on this website. Start your own on something that you don’t have to “stoop so low” for.
Bigfoot love elk meat, so those of you who take the time to look at current summertime sightings from the BFRO, will know where the elk are very numerous and the bowhunting good. Plus, you get some excitement of having a big hairy neighbor if you camp there.
Keith Foster
Date: 25-Jul-00
“1. The place on the Eagle river where the tracks were found is not nearly so remote and seldom visited as you seem to think it is. As an objective and skeptical person the first thing I thought of when I saw that report was my cousin who has feet about that size. No “g” here, it’s the truth! The place where the tracks were found were exactly where a prankster would most likely put them.”
Size 26 shoe size feet are only a meesly 14.5 inches long and thinner for their length ratio than most human feet. If your cousin has 19 inch long feet that are 10 inches wide, then he exceeds the world record size for human feet by a width of 5 inches and a length of 4 inchs.
“2. Maybe there are so many reports of BF’s in the San Juans because you and a few others choose to focus on the arera!”
I don’t go out looking for sightings in specific areas, I just let them come is as they may.
“3. If a BF ranges in an area as large as you say (and it probably would as a major predator) how often and how far does it travel to use it’s “latrine”.”
I’ve never found a latrine or even a scat that I could say for sure was bigfoot scat. I have had to trust other biologists and scientists on this. I gave the number to Dr. Fahrenbach if you are really interesting in that kind of shit. I “guesstimate” territorial needs based on the metabolic needs of an animal the size of bigfoot extrapolated from known predators, which is all I can do, and this is also done in regards to other predators by biologists.
“4. If credible researchers have found BF poop why hasn’t it been analyzed to determine what it has eaten and whether or not it is that of some other animal? It’s not that hard to tell if scientifically examined!”
As I said before, call Fahrenbach for details on the many examinations done to find out content
“5. Why do you draw analogies between UFO’s and BF’s? You hurt your own credibility as a scientific researcher when you discuss the two together and repeatedly use the “belief” and “believe” word. A belief is a religious article of faith. It is accepted by the believer as such and requires no proof and indeed the believer usually does not seek, want or need proof. The possible existence of a BF on the other hand would be viewed as an hypothesis by an objective person.”
UFO’s are for sure real. The UFO’s over Pheonix a few years ago were confirmed as really there by video cameras. They are also obviously not alien ships from outerspace, but rather are military flares. They were UFO’s then, and IFO’s now.
“By the way, you have presented yourself as a custom bowyer and BF researcher. Why did you leave out the part about meat inspector?”
Who said I was a meat inspector? My occupation is in inspections of land for invasive species and enforcement of laws dealing with that subject. I couldn’t take a job that kept me inside too much.
Remember please how the CDOW laughed at us for finding grizzly tracks or reporting seeing grizzlies in the San Juans for 25 years prior to 1979, and then how they laughed again prior to now for reports of the same animal in that area for the last 20 years. Remember that CDOW used much manpower, money, time, helicopters, set baits, had many organized groups looking for sign and did everything they could for many years and came up empty and declared the Colorado grizzly extinct, only to have it reappear in the exact area they had searched. No one is funding any search for bigfoot, with helicopters, baits, money, time, or manpower. It is declared non-existant before even trying to find out. 10,000 people who have seen it are wrong, and you are right, bigfoot does not exist because you say it doesn’t. It is up to us idiots who have been unfortunate enough to have seen one or found tracks outselves. I still think I have a moral obligation to the animal involved to make it’s existance known.
If you find tracks or see one, then you will be morally obligated too. That is all there is to it. The only reason I hope somebody shoots or finds a fresh body of one is to end the mystery, start the real research and get some formal protection for it and it’s habitat.
First time this bowhunter has ever been called a “left coaster”. Ouch, that hurts. I’ve been called “right wing” before, but never “left”.
Marmoteater, since your cousin has feet more than 4 inches longer and 4 inches wider than Shaquille O’neal or any other known human, I’m sure Nike would like to talk with him. The 19 inch Eagle tracks are not human tracks, they are either fake bigfoot tracks or real bigfoot tracks. Time will tell.
Date: 26-Jul-00
Wow, Marmoteater, first time I ever ran into anybody that claimed to have a cousin with 19 inch long feet just to give a different answer to the 19 inch tracks found on the Eagle River. The biggest known human feet in the world are really less than 15 inches long and less than 5.5 inches wide. Which would make your cousin the new world record holder by a 4 inch length margin and a 4 inch width margin. Maybe you are mistaken and he wears size 19, as a lot of guys do. I wear size 13, but my feet are not 13 inches long. The Eagle County Sheriff Department has a 7 foot tall deputy that they were measureing for comparison of the tracks found there, not even slightly close.
I was answering all your numbered questions to the best of my ability, so what did you get pissed about.
It is one thing for me to call myself an idiot for putting up with critics and skeptics, it is altogether another thing for you to call me an idiot. Thanks a bunch, Mr. Mike Lee.
Mr. Lee, when you say,
“Who are you to tell me what my moral obligations are? If I find tracks or see one, I’ll keep it to myself and leave the poor sonofabitch to live in peace.”,
you are saying that it is all right to let an animal go extinct, as long as you know about it, and no one else does. This is wrong in anyones book, except yours I guess. If you see any very rare mammal, you should let officials know about it so that they can learn of it’s whereabouts. Keeping it to yourself is “selfish”, and benefits only you.
I will say right now that you “do” have a moral obligation to “all” wildlife, non-game or game, in “all” areas that you impact. I will demand that, and I will tell you that all day long!!!! I’ve seen others before that complained when I told them to pick up their trash, saying “you can do with your trash as you please, and we’ll do with our trash as we please”. You have that same “I don’t care” attitude about wildlife.
I do care about wildlife, which is why I take the critism of those who don’t know the first thing about wildlife.
I also can’t stand your “I didn’t save my trophy antelope horns because that doesn’t matter to me” hype. I’ve heard that before from guys that always seem to come home empty handed. They say “If a record book buck and a little buck walk by my stand at the same time, I’ll shoot the little one”. Give me a break!
I started this thread with a simple question and a little background to base it on. If you were not interested, or didn’t have any sightings to report, why are you even reading this thread. There are plenty of other threads for you to tell how you won’t shoot big deer. You could even start a thread called “Throw out your horns and antlers”.
Date: 17-Oct-00
Thought this thread had died a proper death, but since it is at the top again, thought I would give an update.
A bowhunter went after Colorado elk in the core area of where I do my bigfoot field research this season and found some bigfoot tracks. Only problem was they were 12 years old and existed only in the photo album of a local lodge. The tracks predated our track find there by 5 years, but were photographed less than 5 miles away from where I found tracks in 1993. Odd that those resident lodge owners would find these strange giant tracks specifically there and photograph them, unless of course there really are bigfoot in that area. I was excited about the new “old” tracks from that particular area. These tracks were also laid out with a stride of about 48 inches, just like the ones I found there.
Another piece to a puzzle that points to bigfoot as real, or a piece of evidence that someone was making fake tracks then too? These tracks were also found well away from normal human activity, and fortunately documented by a camera.
From that particular part of Colorado I now have this evidence in chronological order.
1540 Jemez Pueblo name a pueblo after the hairy giants there. (discovered by me in 1996)
1870 A government bear hunter reports in his memoirs of giant tracks, fearful indians, and horrible screams there. (came to my attention in 1997)
1920 Local miners report finding giant human tracks near mine opening. (came to my attention in 1997)
1920’s Local residents report seeing a hairy wildman that they give the name “Boji”. (came to my attention in 1997)
1960s-70’s Local Ute hunting guides report seeing them, tracks, finding hairs, and hearing them in the area while hunting there. (came to my attention in 1996)
1960’s A woman on a college class survival course reports coming face to face with a bigfoot there.
1967 Father and son elk hunters stalk up on what they thought was a bear feeding on a deer until it stood and walked away.
1970’s A group of 4 backpackers report seeing a bigfoot walk along a nearby ridge 3 afternoons in a row.
1988 Local lodge owners find and photograph huge man-like tracks in a remote area while hiking. (came to my attention in 2000)
1990 Man and woman report seeing an 8 foot running gorilla type animal with brown fur and conical head there. (came to my attention in 1990, my parents sighting)
1993 I hear loud unusual screams and find tracks there. (I start investigations after finding the tracks)
1993 30 residents report sightings in 7 different incidents in winter at lower elevations. (came to my attention in 1997)
1994 Local law enforcement finds and video documents two sets of tracks at lower elevations in winter. (came to my attention in 1997)
1997 Man and wife watch a bigfoot through binoculars for 5 minutes as it walks down an open valley (came to my attention in 1998)
1997 4 bowhunters watch as a bigfoot runs away from them after being surprised by them.
1998 Wildlife biologist and his friend hear unusual and loud animal vocalizations there (came to my attention in 1998)
These are just sightings and track finds documented from the San Juans, and only the ones that I am aware of. I am discovering new stuff all the time. The Holy Cross area stuff is pretty amazing too, with some pretty good track documentation there too, and sightings going back in that area to an article in a newspaper in 1881.
Interesting if nothing else, especially since none of the other witnesses knew of any of the previous sightings or of any history of such an animal in Colorado. Bigfoot is supposed to be in the pacific northwest, not in Colorado of all places. I just document the tracks and the sightings. You all can decide for yourselves whether they mean anything or not. Personally, I probably “couldn’t” believe it had I not found the tracks myself. So I’m sorry about coming off so pissy in former posts.
I’ve been documenting cougar sightings in Kansas for a number of years too, but we still don’t officially have any here at all. I saw one of those mysterious cougars in Kansas two weekends ago. First wild cougar I have ever seen, anywhere. They are amazing predators. Almost as amazing as bigfoot. Cougars leave their tracks and are seen every once in awhile in Kansas, but nobody can prove they live here. They must not live here, but I saw one here finally.
Thanks again to you guys who sent me your personal sightings of bigfoot, and also the newspaper article and second hand reports. They are all helpful.
lonegunman, Utah Wildlife Officials would be interested in your sighting in Utah (location, year, month, date, altitude, description particulars). Contact Rudy Drobnick or Mike Ray in the Salt Lake City main offices, it’s in the phone book.
